There's a fairly compelling argument from the terfs that claim the culture war surrounding trans issues has been driven by misogyny almost exclusively in the last 10 years.
This was a 1 to 1 in my mind for the argument.
IMO Identity politics will quickly lead to arguments like this, which just adds another to the list of why collective thinking is such a dead end street - inevitably the ends justify the means, and the idea becomes untethered from any known or knowable....
It’s effectively the “Might makes Right,” argument--a human favorite. What is the best possible outcome of his position? Women get shown their place again and come begging for help? Yikes!
TERFs can't argue against trans ideology in good faith because trans ideology IS feminist ideology. It wasn't 'misogynistic men' who spent the last 50 years insisting gender is nothing more than a 'social construct' ... it was feminists. It was them.
The only thing I would push back against is the idea that anyone can tell anyone else what they have the right / ability to argue.
You could easily get me to agree with something like -
"I don't take the terf argument against gender ideology seriously because of the hypocrisy involved in creating it through years of overreach and selective logic. I would take the terf argument seriously if there was an admission and an apology preceding it every time."
Ok, well there is a fairly large distinction between the different waves of feminism and just because the intersectional 3rd / 4th wave gets headlines and accolades doesn't mean the 1st and 2nd wave have to be lumped in with the Derek bell / Kimberly Crenshaw flavor of idiocy.
You did say "in good faith", and I guess the idea that "terf", or "feminist" automatically equals gender ideology advocate is the maximalist interpretation that gave us gems like "maga is neo fascist" and "democrats are communist"...
I think I agree with your point, just not the Howard Stern level of strawman you use to make it....
Terfs that endorsed gender ideology reap what they've sewn...
Quite the duuude! Lime Soda Films youtube channel, film auteur Vaishnavi Sundar, has a new trailer out for her film about trans widows' experiences. She's interviewed 40 of us. I'm there, warning women to get out before you get an STD or get accused of infidelity yourself. Take it from us, he does not "love" you. He loves himself, playing with himself.
Thank you for sharing this Ute. I have had a glimpse of this from interviews with some of you. It's a film that most definitely needs to be made and watched by a wide audience.
The propaganda being pumped out is only showing, promoting one side of the situation.
I just looked at the way he looks and think there is no way he supports gender ideology. Prob not the sharpest tool in the shed but the dude is a macho dude.
This guy is a little too strong in his naive belief that men are the "dominant species." Are they physically stronger? Sure. The man he meant was BRUCE JENNER/CAITLIN JENNER. This guy can barely put together one coherent sentence. LMAO. He's a... well, MORON. Guess what Mr. Man? Transgender WOMEN are biological MEN. So, you're wrong. Fella. This guy doesn't know that he's talking about.
That was amazing. I’m not sure what to call it. Trans Inclusive Radical Machismo?
It feels like he might not have taken your meaning of “fair” at the end. But you got it with the different levels of fairness.
I’m having trouble breaking his logic, but I think my leading counter would be something like, “if men are dominant do women deserve protection as inferiors? If they don’t, how do you preserve the species? If they do, should they have spaces or rules dedicated to their safety and well-being? (At least we’re in sight of Chivalry, lol)
Ever since I read The Once and Future King as a kid, I’ve always wondered about the “might makes right” rule. It’s so primitive and yet unassailable. Who can argue with, “I’m right or you’re dead?”
The more I listen to history podcasts the more the past looks like a fight to dis-prove what has seemed like an axiom since before humans could walk. The only bigger truth was, “There’s always a bigger fish,” but that knowledge never helped the weak and disenfranchised.
Now, we feel progressed and enlightened--beyond those simple ideas. I hope this interview disproves that notion. The idea that facts, logic and compassion should dictate the direction of a Nation state is like, maybe, 250 years old (less for universal suffrage) and not universally accepted.
The barbarians are waiting at the gate my friends. You just met their ideological daddy.
“Enter the delusion” thinking. When faced with insanity, just agree to all of the premises in order to support a conclusion that is unpalatable to most that accept the premises. Strategically effective argumentation imo!
So funny when he was asked if it was fair for women to compete against men in MMA and he said "It's not fair" and then quickly 'corrected' himself. The truth is slipping out but he quickly put his woke mask back on.
I’m not convinced this guy was woke. I heard it very differently. He seemed to want male physical dominance to reveal the issues with woke-ism. I got more of a, “let’s be ruthlessly fair and watch it shake out, and there will eventually be no doubt that men deserve to dominate all sports. (Gonna give him the benefit of the doubt he was sticking to the question and not trying to signal something)
Well yeah that's true, saying men are the dominant "species" is certainly not toeing the woke line. Though if he really believed that men should dominate all sports then he would be advocating for just removing the gender divide in sports all together. I think he's just confused, which is certainly a symptom of the woke ideology.
There's a fairly compelling argument from the terfs that claim the culture war surrounding trans issues has been driven by misogyny almost exclusively in the last 10 years.
This was a 1 to 1 in my mind for the argument.
IMO Identity politics will quickly lead to arguments like this, which just adds another to the list of why collective thinking is such a dead end street - inevitably the ends justify the means, and the idea becomes untethered from any known or knowable....
It’s effectively the “Might makes Right,” argument--a human favorite. What is the best possible outcome of his position? Women get shown their place again and come begging for help? Yikes!
You could also view it as an appeal to authority argument if you were so inclined...
The authority being nature / biology...
Like frenology coming back into fashion, chilling...
What's compelling about that nonsense?
You should read the argument, watch the video we're commenting on again, and answer your question yourself 👍
TERFs can't argue against trans ideology in good faith because trans ideology IS feminist ideology. It wasn't 'misogynistic men' who spent the last 50 years insisting gender is nothing more than a 'social construct' ... it was feminists. It was them.
The only thing I would push back against is the idea that anyone can tell anyone else what they have the right / ability to argue.
You could easily get me to agree with something like -
"I don't take the terf argument against gender ideology seriously because of the hypocrisy involved in creating it through years of overreach and selective logic. I would take the terf argument seriously if there was an admission and an apology preceding it every time."
I did say they can't argue *in good faith*.... not that they should not be allowed to argue (although....).
I just meant a TERF is a self contradictory stance. A TERF is basically an 'anti feminist feminist'.
But, pretty much everything about feminism is a self contradictory stance, so at least there is some consistency :)
Ok, well there is a fairly large distinction between the different waves of feminism and just because the intersectional 3rd / 4th wave gets headlines and accolades doesn't mean the 1st and 2nd wave have to be lumped in with the Derek bell / Kimberly Crenshaw flavor of idiocy.
You did say "in good faith", and I guess the idea that "terf", or "feminist" automatically equals gender ideology advocate is the maximalist interpretation that gave us gems like "maga is neo fascist" and "democrats are communist"...
I think I agree with your point, just not the Howard Stern level of strawman you use to make it....
Terfs that endorsed gender ideology reap what they've sewn...
Yes?
Quite the duuude! Lime Soda Films youtube channel, film auteur Vaishnavi Sundar, has a new trailer out for her film about trans widows' experiences. She's interviewed 40 of us. I'm there, warning women to get out before you get an STD or get accused of infidelity yourself. Take it from us, he does not "love" you. He loves himself, playing with himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4XQ6Ie8O0
Thank you for sharing this Ute. I have had a glimpse of this from interviews with some of you. It's a film that most definitely needs to be made and watched by a wide audience.
The propaganda being pumped out is only showing, promoting one side of the situation.
Boom!
What a tit.
I am sure he is trolling. I would have done the same. I would have thrown in some woke buzzwords for good measure.
That's what I thought. I thought he was trying to demonstrate the absurdity of the idea. Am I being too generous in my interpretation?
I just looked at the way he looks and think there is no way he supports gender ideology. Prob not the sharpest tool in the shed but the dude is a macho dude.
This guy is uneducated, and a sad woman hater. Why would you even give this cretin five minutes of your time? Repugnant, in every way. LOL..
This guy is a little too strong in his naive belief that men are the "dominant species." Are they physically stronger? Sure. The man he meant was BRUCE JENNER/CAITLIN JENNER. This guy can barely put together one coherent sentence. LMAO. He's a... well, MORON. Guess what Mr. Man? Transgender WOMEN are biological MEN. So, you're wrong. Fella. This guy doesn't know that he's talking about.
Is his position on transwomen in sports any different than Joe Biden’s?
A display of obtuse commentary in the extreme.
That was amazing. I’m not sure what to call it. Trans Inclusive Radical Machismo?
It feels like he might not have taken your meaning of “fair” at the end. But you got it with the different levels of fairness.
I’m having trouble breaking his logic, but I think my leading counter would be something like, “if men are dominant do women deserve protection as inferiors? If they don’t, how do you preserve the species? If they do, should they have spaces or rules dedicated to their safety and well-being? (At least we’re in sight of Chivalry, lol)
Ever since I read The Once and Future King as a kid, I’ve always wondered about the “might makes right” rule. It’s so primitive and yet unassailable. Who can argue with, “I’m right or you’re dead?”
The more I listen to history podcasts the more the past looks like a fight to dis-prove what has seemed like an axiom since before humans could walk. The only bigger truth was, “There’s always a bigger fish,” but that knowledge never helped the weak and disenfranchised.
Now, we feel progressed and enlightened--beyond those simple ideas. I hope this interview disproves that notion. The idea that facts, logic and compassion should dictate the direction of a Nation state is like, maybe, 250 years old (less for universal suffrage) and not universally accepted.
The barbarians are waiting at the gate my friends. You just met their ideological daddy.
"Lets women know men are the dominant species". Women already know this, it's called sexual assault statistics.
“Enter the delusion” thinking. When faced with insanity, just agree to all of the premises in order to support a conclusion that is unpalatable to most that accept the premises. Strategically effective argumentation imo!
That was ... Interesting.
Trans-Inclusive Radical Chauvinism
He’s a New TiRC
So funny when he was asked if it was fair for women to compete against men in MMA and he said "It's not fair" and then quickly 'corrected' himself. The truth is slipping out but he quickly put his woke mask back on.
I’m not convinced this guy was woke. I heard it very differently. He seemed to want male physical dominance to reveal the issues with woke-ism. I got more of a, “let’s be ruthlessly fair and watch it shake out, and there will eventually be no doubt that men deserve to dominate all sports. (Gonna give him the benefit of the doubt he was sticking to the question and not trying to signal something)
Maybe I missed something.
Well yeah that's true, saying men are the dominant "species" is certainly not toeing the woke line. Though if he really believed that men should dominate all sports then he would be advocating for just removing the gender divide in sports all together. I think he's just confused, which is certainly a symptom of the woke ideology.