This was a great conversation. I'm beginning to think that there are so many things we need to talk about to understand the broad range of opinions in order to come up with nuanced and thoughtful solutions. And I find it is challenging to get people to willingly do this. So far one on one has worked for me.
Peter, can you help me address an idea I've had around 'Equal Opportunity' and the common presentation of 'Equal Opportunity vs Equal Outcome' as a useful and coherent point of debate. I've been pointing it out to various people like yourself for years, with no response.
My argument is this:
1) Equality of outcome ventures quickly and necessarily tend towards increasing levels of totalitarianism, Cutting Down The Tall Poppies, Harrison Bergenon-ing, etc.
"Utopia can only approached across a sea of blood, and you never arrive."
2) Equal opportunity ventures *are themselves a type* of equal outcome ventures.
The type of desired equal outcome being that of 'opportunity'.
3) Therefore, Equality of opportunity ventures do also necessarily tend towards increasingly levels of totalitarianism, Cutting Down The Tall Poppies, Harrison Bergenon-ing, etc.
4) Therefore, equality of opportunity ventures as as foolish and destructive a venture as any other equality of outcome venture, and should not be pursued.
Those offering Equality of Opportunity as a suitable substitute, alternative for the modern ubiquitous Equality of Outcome doctrine are offering the same gruel in a different bowl.
More than 40 years ago, a Colombian sociologist explained why inside the cranium groups can differ significantly. It originates in how one acquires food in harsh climates. In what is now the tropics one pulls a fish out of the river or a mango from the tree year-round. There is no survival advantage conferred by advance planning. In the northern climes this is not true. If one does not lay away fish, meat, dried vegetables in the fall (advance planning), one does not survive until spring.
Any gene or group of genes that promotes advance planning is largely a waste in the tropics.
Melanin, muscle fiber types and quantity, efficiency of oxygenation, height and build, facial features, embryonic, infant, and adolescent developmental stages and timing, vulnerability and resistance to certain diseases, etc., etc., etc.? Sure, but brain size, white/gray matter, cognitive function, and psychological proclivities? Uh-uh, no way, never happened, STFU!
I gave one example if how people who live at equatorial latitudes and people who live at latitudes closer to the poles with less sun adapted differently. So glad to see you embracing the principles of having didficult conversations. Thank you for your explication🤪
Melanin is present in all epidermal cells except those of albinos. Its expression is a survival response for those at risk of skin cancers from too much sunlight, which can cause cells to become cancerous. It is indeed adaptive and further proof that inside the body, cranium, torso or fingernail, we are not all the same at the cellular level.
This was a great conversation. I'm beginning to think that there are so many things we need to talk about to understand the broad range of opinions in order to come up with nuanced and thoughtful solutions. And I find it is challenging to get people to willingly do this. So far one on one has worked for me.
Peter, can you help me address an idea I've had around 'Equal Opportunity' and the common presentation of 'Equal Opportunity vs Equal Outcome' as a useful and coherent point of debate. I've been pointing it out to various people like yourself for years, with no response.
My argument is this:
1) Equality of outcome ventures quickly and necessarily tend towards increasing levels of totalitarianism, Cutting Down The Tall Poppies, Harrison Bergenon-ing, etc.
"Utopia can only approached across a sea of blood, and you never arrive."
2) Equal opportunity ventures *are themselves a type* of equal outcome ventures.
The type of desired equal outcome being that of 'opportunity'.
3) Therefore, Equality of opportunity ventures do also necessarily tend towards increasingly levels of totalitarianism, Cutting Down The Tall Poppies, Harrison Bergenon-ing, etc.
4) Therefore, equality of opportunity ventures as as foolish and destructive a venture as any other equality of outcome venture, and should not be pursued.
Those offering Equality of Opportunity as a suitable substitute, alternative for the modern ubiquitous Equality of Outcome doctrine are offering the same gruel in a different bowl.
Thank you.
More than 40 years ago, a Colombian sociologist explained why inside the cranium groups can differ significantly. It originates in how one acquires food in harsh climates. In what is now the tropics one pulls a fish out of the river or a mango from the tree year-round. There is no survival advantage conferred by advance planning. In the northern climes this is not true. If one does not lay away fish, meat, dried vegetables in the fall (advance planning), one does not survive until spring.
Any gene or group of genes that promotes advance planning is largely a waste in the tropics.
That's racist!
Hmm... I would say evolutionarily interesting, ie, why are some people more melanated than others? That's adaptive.
Melanin, muscle fiber types and quantity, efficiency of oxygenation, height and build, facial features, embryonic, infant, and adolescent developmental stages and timing, vulnerability and resistance to certain diseases, etc., etc., etc.? Sure, but brain size, white/gray matter, cognitive function, and psychological proclivities? Uh-uh, no way, never happened, STFU!
also i chuckled at your last name.😜👍
I didn't notice the surname. I have no idea where he found that strawman.
I gave one example if how people who live at equatorial latitudes and people who live at latitudes closer to the poles with less sun adapted differently. So glad to see you embracing the principles of having didficult conversations. Thank you for your explication🤪
Melanin is present in all epidermal cells except those of albinos. Its expression is a survival response for those at risk of skin cancers from too much sunlight, which can cause cells to become cancerous. It is indeed adaptive and further proof that inside the body, cranium, torso or fingernail, we are not all the same at the cellular level.
It is gene poolist. Quite a difference.
You know Boghossian's not grading papers anymore, right? He, too, thought it a distinction with a difference...