I've been to NZ three times (twice to visit a friend who'd moved to Wellington), so I had the opportunity to learn this: the Maori arrived around the 14th Century. So they're hardly comparable to the Australian Aboriginals or Native Americans, who were there for thousands or tens of thousands of years.
"As a result of the letter's publication, Clements was removed from teaching duties, with accusations of racism leveled against him. "
These are intimidation tactics that work because men today have become too soft. I get why so many especially college educated, think the promotion of sex equality, i.e. feminism, is good but it's not b/c men and women are not equal. Both deserve equal rights in society but even that is not what we have today. The feminization of society via feminism has made us soft. Thank God no string enemy has taken advantage of this. The last 4 years was the ideal time to attack America.
People, especially men, have to learn to stop go along just to get along People have to be told NO when they go to far and that include any women in your lives that you love or are trying to impress. We may have had something like an oppressive patriarchy up until the sexual revolution of the 60's/70's but back then people felt safe walking at night and they didn't need to be fearful that some affirmative action or DEI hire has done something foolish like recue fire emergency services budget and send money and supplies to fire depts in another nation or to fund a gay choir. The fact is not 1 single government employee at any level should be talking about sexuality as that is a private matter and has no business in public service.
What they put the good doctor through is a disgrace. Truly. And if you'd read the letter it's INCREDIBLY benign. There's nothing even remotely offensive about it.
I don't think we're heading for more freedom. But, with luck, we're in for a roller-coaster dystopia agenda of the making of the WEF-UN. And, mind you, they're dead serious about 2030!
Despite the request the Professor seemed unable to provide a single instance of MM producing anything other than local information about when fish spawn or some other entirely local event.
Knowledge derived via the scientific methods allows understanding that can be applied and globally. A quality that elevates the utility of science over any other other method of knowledge creation. The example given of a fraternal relationship between whales and local flora appears another example of the silliness (easily debunked) of the type of claims associated with indigenous beliefs and the levels of ignorance required to accept claims.
Do there exist any examples of understanding that MM has contributed to the body of human knowledge that has not already been gleaned from historical interactions with other indigenous peoples?
Peyer - I think most who have replied are on board or in agreement with you. The concern now is is this, is it too late to fix? Have we passed the uTurn point and now must face a new future?
"Naturally, we discussed whether science can truly be considered a tool of colonization or if it is fundamentally evidence-based. What are the implications of tying science to traditions rather than empirical evidence? Is it racist to associate knowledge with race? "
Science is no more a tool for good or bad than a garden rake. Science is not some self-aware entity with nefarious motives. The reason science is targeted is b/c those targeting it know that science can't be beaten by any means other than via propaganda and it’s truths destroy their narratives so science must be taken down. Inferior cultures FEAR science and yes we do have inferior and superior cultures but we’ve been conditioned to not acknowledge that b/c if you do then you’re a racist or a bigot or a misogynist.
"...yes we do have inferior and superior cultures..." What exactly do you mean by "superior" and "inferior" cultures? Please objectively (factually) define what you mean by those terms in a cultural context.
In a society where adult aged men, those greater than 18, are marrying single digit females and this is considered normal is what I would call an inferior culture and any culture that does not do that is superior in that regard. Another specific culture that is inferior would be the American hood culture. In that culture it's always someone else fault, usually a white person, sometimes Asian, who is to blame for all ones woes. In that culture thieving is just reparation's for oppressions.
Let me ask you one, do you believe all cultures are equal? That all cultures equally treat their citizens and don't afford preference to any within that group over others?
As I wrote above, we need to model the behavior of giving reasons for our beliefs.
I believe this current spell is breaking, and the ideologues who've tormented him owe a profound apology to Dr Clements. Will we ever see that apology? No.
"The letter (commonly referred to as the “Listener Letter”) was a direct response to a proposed curriculum that sought to promote the discussion and analysis of how science has been used to support the dominance of Eurocentric views, including its role in the “colonization” of Māori peoples and the “suppression” of Māori knowledge."
Not all culture are equal.
NOT ALL CULTURES ARE EQUAL!
Not every culture deserves to exist as is. In some Muslim nations adult men are marrying single digit aged girls. That is NOT a culture with a value that is worth saving and we need to stop being wishy-washy about not wanting to offend. If anything people need to be offended more often so as to toughen them up. In China, Americans are made fun of because the perception is the majority look like adult aged juveniles enraged in 24x7 cosplay dressing up as comic book villain henchmen.
Every culture has faced conquest and change yet the only griping about this is when the conquering or invading was done by light skinned Europeans. This is because most of the other cultures know that historically speaking, it is the light skinned Europeans most likely to conquer even though they are the minority on the planet and we know why. Asians are not the same as Europeans but they get associated with us b/c like Europeans, the Asians tend to be hard working society's that have what it takes to defend and conquer.
We have to stop saying "sorry" and stop being "Sorry" because someone's culture/society got conquered by a superior one. So is life.
Fundamentally, culture is an expression of a philosophy: inquiries about reality (metaphysics); about means of knowing (epistemology); about right and wrong action (ethics/morality); about social arrangement and governance (politics); and artistic expression (aesthetics). Since not all philosophies are factually (reality)-based, not all cultures are equal. Cultures (philosophies) that are empirically/reality-based, by virtue of being so based, are superior, existentially and ethically/morally (when human life and its objective requirements are the standard of ethics/morality), to cultures that are dismissive or hostile to facts/reality because the former provides human beings with a reality-based approach to life on earth that is objectively conducive to their survival, liberty, and well-being, while the latter results in ignorance, destruction, and misery in every aspect of people's lives.
A culture can be defined as the collective set of values, beliefs, customs, behaviors, artifacts and so on that characterize a group or even a society. Thus a culture is about a common set of things and not a physical location or even a spiritual belief.
I've been to NZ three times (twice to visit a friend who'd moved to Wellington), so I had the opportunity to learn this: the Maori arrived around the 14th Century. So they're hardly comparable to the Australian Aboriginals or Native Americans, who were there for thousands or tens of thousands of years.
"As a result of the letter's publication, Clements was removed from teaching duties, with accusations of racism leveled against him. "
These are intimidation tactics that work because men today have become too soft. I get why so many especially college educated, think the promotion of sex equality, i.e. feminism, is good but it's not b/c men and women are not equal. Both deserve equal rights in society but even that is not what we have today. The feminization of society via feminism has made us soft. Thank God no string enemy has taken advantage of this. The last 4 years was the ideal time to attack America.
People, especially men, have to learn to stop go along just to get along People have to be told NO when they go to far and that include any women in your lives that you love or are trying to impress. We may have had something like an oppressive patriarchy up until the sexual revolution of the 60's/70's but back then people felt safe walking at night and they didn't need to be fearful that some affirmative action or DEI hire has done something foolish like recue fire emergency services budget and send money and supplies to fire depts in another nation or to fund a gay choir. The fact is not 1 single government employee at any level should be talking about sexuality as that is a private matter and has no business in public service.
What they put the good doctor through is a disgrace. Truly. And if you'd read the letter it's INCREDIBLY benign. There's nothing even remotely offensive about it.
"Is Science a Tool of Colonization?"
NO. Next question please.
That's my reaction, too. That said, we need to model civil dialogue, reason, evidence-based beliefs, etc., and provide reasons for this position.
I don't think we're heading for more freedom. But, with luck, we're in for a roller-coaster dystopia agenda of the making of the WEF-UN. And, mind you, they're dead serious about 2030!
https://unbekoming.substack.com/p/heresy
https://www.kritischegesellschaftsforschung.de/Journal/Article/65/50/pdf
I'm bullish on the US medium and long term. We have some "issues" we need to work out, but American ingenuity has no equal.
ABSOLUTELY!
Despite the request the Professor seemed unable to provide a single instance of MM producing anything other than local information about when fish spawn or some other entirely local event.
Knowledge derived via the scientific methods allows understanding that can be applied and globally. A quality that elevates the utility of science over any other other method of knowledge creation. The example given of a fraternal relationship between whales and local flora appears another example of the silliness (easily debunked) of the type of claims associated with indigenous beliefs and the levels of ignorance required to accept claims.
Do there exist any examples of understanding that MM has contributed to the body of human knowledge that has not already been gleaned from historical interactions with other indigenous peoples?
Peyer - I think most who have replied are on board or in agreement with you. The concern now is is this, is it too late to fix? Have we passed the uTurn point and now must face a new future?
"Naturally, we discussed whether science can truly be considered a tool of colonization or if it is fundamentally evidence-based. What are the implications of tying science to traditions rather than empirical evidence? Is it racist to associate knowledge with race? "
Science is no more a tool for good or bad than a garden rake. Science is not some self-aware entity with nefarious motives. The reason science is targeted is b/c those targeting it know that science can't be beaten by any means other than via propaganda and it’s truths destroy their narratives so science must be taken down. Inferior cultures FEAR science and yes we do have inferior and superior cultures but we’ve been conditioned to not acknowledge that b/c if you do then you’re a racist or a bigot or a misogynist.
"...yes we do have inferior and superior cultures..." What exactly do you mean by "superior" and "inferior" cultures? Please objectively (factually) define what you mean by those terms in a cultural context.
In a society where adult aged men, those greater than 18, are marrying single digit females and this is considered normal is what I would call an inferior culture and any culture that does not do that is superior in that regard. Another specific culture that is inferior would be the American hood culture. In that culture it's always someone else fault, usually a white person, sometimes Asian, who is to blame for all ones woes. In that culture thieving is just reparation's for oppressions.
Let me ask you one, do you believe all cultures are equal? That all cultures equally treat their citizens and don't afford preference to any within that group over others?
I live in NZ and am heartily sick of all the pandering to these "special" people
As I wrote above, we need to model the behavior of giving reasons for our beliefs.
I believe this current spell is breaking, and the ideologues who've tormented him owe a profound apology to Dr Clements. Will we ever see that apology? No.
Yes but is it breaking soon enough or too late?
"The letter (commonly referred to as the “Listener Letter”) was a direct response to a proposed curriculum that sought to promote the discussion and analysis of how science has been used to support the dominance of Eurocentric views, including its role in the “colonization” of Māori peoples and the “suppression” of Māori knowledge."
Not all culture are equal.
NOT ALL CULTURES ARE EQUAL!
Not every culture deserves to exist as is. In some Muslim nations adult men are marrying single digit aged girls. That is NOT a culture with a value that is worth saving and we need to stop being wishy-washy about not wanting to offend. If anything people need to be offended more often so as to toughen them up. In China, Americans are made fun of because the perception is the majority look like adult aged juveniles enraged in 24x7 cosplay dressing up as comic book villain henchmen.
Every culture has faced conquest and change yet the only griping about this is when the conquering or invading was done by light skinned Europeans. This is because most of the other cultures know that historically speaking, it is the light skinned Europeans most likely to conquer even though they are the minority on the planet and we know why. Asians are not the same as Europeans but they get associated with us b/c like Europeans, the Asians tend to be hard working society's that have what it takes to defend and conquer.
We have to stop saying "sorry" and stop being "Sorry" because someone's culture/society got conquered by a superior one. So is life.
Again, if you read the letter it is striking in how benign it is. Truly.
NO CULTURES ARE EQUAL!
There Fixed It.
Steve - I'm a bit confused. I think you are agreeing with me but I'm not sure.
Oh I agree with you. Thing is I am by nature a sarcastic person.
Apologies for not being able to LIKE twice
Fundamentally, culture is an expression of a philosophy: inquiries about reality (metaphysics); about means of knowing (epistemology); about right and wrong action (ethics/morality); about social arrangement and governance (politics); and artistic expression (aesthetics). Since not all philosophies are factually (reality)-based, not all cultures are equal. Cultures (philosophies) that are empirically/reality-based, by virtue of being so based, are superior, existentially and ethically/morally (when human life and its objective requirements are the standard of ethics/morality), to cultures that are dismissive or hostile to facts/reality because the former provides human beings with a reality-based approach to life on earth that is objectively conducive to their survival, liberty, and well-being, while the latter results in ignorance, destruction, and misery in every aspect of people's lives.
A culture can be defined as the collective set of values, beliefs, customs, behaviors, artifacts and so on that characterize a group or even a society. Thus a culture is about a common set of things and not a physical location or even a spiritual belief.
And which AI came up with that one for you?