Moments ago, Reid and I returned from a massive pro-Palestinian rally in London. Even this framing, however, is not quite right. With 50,000 attendees, it was a hodgepodge of different interests, some competing, some comporting, others seeming to have nothing to do with anything: anti-Israeli, anti-capitalist, pro-communist, pro-peace, anti-Jewish, and others who were just generally outraged.
To be fair you hear just as bad stuff on the other side if you care to listen. And 'from the river to the sea' has been taken up by socialists many of whom are Jews. And 'into the sea with you' maybe a variation frequently seen on social media and always (or almost always) with implied genocide. Humans seem quite capable of imagining genocide so from there to actual genocide is maybe not too much of a step for many.
2. is too complex, but on 1.? UI's? You certainly have that right. Not only the protesters, but hamas. The question is who are they being useful to? Don't take your eye off Ukraine for a second.
Like the gender issue, this is represented, on the vocal Left, by people who have little even baseline knowledge but strong emotions. They're satisfied to know that their emotions are justified by something, anything — numbers of other people, commentators they align with, friends who agree… I have an affirming spouse and in our brief (and extraordinarily unsuccessful) conversation about the conflict in the Middle East, it became clear that he did not know who Hamas was or what their role was, having assumed them to be a radicalized faction similar to the Proud Boys. I'm lost as to how to move the needle with people who are offended by the idea that they should read and listen broadly before locking into an opinion.
From the signs, I have a feeling that many never had time to look at the map to identify the Gaza Strip and other parts. Everything is "Palestine" which is a historic name for the entire region including modern Israel. "Free Palestine" (instead of "Free Gaza Strip" or "I support the State of Palestine" or something like that) sounds like "free the region from Jews". What a bunch of idiots undermining their own cause.
like the gender issue, there is a cabal of white men who have spent decades on a PR campaign to further their interests at the expense of marginalized groups. in the case of the Palestinians, white men from US and europe are robbing the rights of native ppl who have lived in the Palestinian area for 1000s of years, keeping millions of natives in an illegal harah prison called the west bank and gaza. regarding the gender issue, white men promoting gender ideology are robbing the rights of women, kids, gays. dysphoric ppl.
both the zionists and gender activists were given an inch and took a mile. both only benefit white men. both groups have spent $billons amd decades on a circular PR campaign
Maybe they should look into where that ‘Workers of the World, Unite!’ stuff got us. I see society today as I saw it in Crime and Punishment and The Gulag Archipelago.
"I did not hear anything that I considered to be particularly insightful, my takeaway was that while feelings were strong, solutions were in short supply."
In Other Words standard leftist/progressive drivel.
It's remarkable how people align themselves with reprehensible causes, blinded by their own righteousness. They want to protest capitalism, so they join a herd that seems to agree with them on one thing, totally ignoring the actual cause - in this case, to annihilate Israel. I feel like the same happened with BLM. So many people believed this was an organization supporting black communities, when actually, they were supporting a Marxist organization focused on the destruction of the nuclear family. The slogan "Black Lives Matter" confused a lot of folks. Many donated not realizing their money was going straight to Act Blue - to elect progressive (Marxists) democrats.
no one wants to annihilate israel. yes, super histrionics worked well for israel in the past. but i think most people now recognise that its isreal thats been keeping millions of native arabs in harsh illegal prison for the past 55 years so that colonists from US and europe can ethnically cleanse the native arabs from their homes so these whites frrom US and europe can rob the natives of their homes. annihilate israel? no. thats just colonizer BS.
“no one wants to annihilate israel.” Not only does Hamas want to annihilate Israel, they want to annihilate every Jew on the planet. Then they want to annihilate everyone else on the planet that won’t convert to Islam. To ignore this is to ignore their own words.
it wouldnt mater if hamas said it wants to ride bikes on the moon. the fact is that israel has been killing arabs 20x more than the vise versa and a 1000 war crimes on innocent ppl as well. isreal isnt in any danger of anything. zero. and if israel is an any danger its only due to its own one sided slaughter of innocent ppl that israel has created such global outrage. but israel doesnt own all the blame. the blame also falls with western governments that allow israels war crimes to continue
I think in the spirit of your hyperbole, that would be millions of war crimes, not 1000. And Israel of course is in no danger, it is perfectly safe and Hamas is a peaceful group that likes to shout "God is Great" in times of great happiness. 1200 Israeli's weren't just killed in a war invasion, it was all a coverup by the usual suspects. Photoshop does wonders these days.
from 2008 to 2020, israel killed 6000 palestinians. 250 israelis died during this time.
starting in 1967, israel has kept millions in an illegal harsh prison called west bank and gaza with no hope and no offer from israel other than to please die as soon as possible so that white people from US and europe can rob their land and ethnically cleanse the native people who have inhabited this area for 1000s of years.
yes. what hama did was terrible. but it didnt happen in a vacuum.
israels cynical notating of hama actions cant be taken at face value. israel wanted hama to attack. these attacks are part of israel strategy to rob land they have no right to.
yes. i agree what israel is doing sounds crazy. but its really not that difficult to understand how we got to this point. israel and pro israeli supporters have been able to lie their asses off for decades about things anyone can see with their own eyes. and they pay western pols via one of the most powerful and rich lobby groups the world as ever known.
You have been brainwashed. I don't expect you to break free of your ignorance. Ignorance is a choice. Nevertheless, here is a quick video from a Palestinian explaining the facts.
The data shows the opposite. The Muslim birth rate inside Israel proper as well as the Gaza Strip and the area often called The West Bank have very high birth rates.
I intend to attend rallies to show my support for the many Palestinian people who are trapped in a horrendous situation, outgunned and with nowhere to go. Nethanyanu has consistently shown himself to be a ruthless tyrant in regards to the Palestinian people who have been pushed into a gulag like existence. I am horrified that no global western leader is stepping up and calling for a truce and proper talks but rather aiding and abetting what looks like the final step in genociding the Palestinian people and grabbing their land.
I am sure there are many more people like me who may feel helpless but at the minimum want to have their bodies counted in saying no to this Palestinian holocaust that looks to be unfolding. We don't need to know how to fix it to get out there and say 'not in our name'!!!
You leave out a lot of facts in your rant. Here are some you missed before you go on your protest and get used as a useful tool for those who want Jews annihilated, who oppress women and kill LGBTQ++ whenever and wherever they find them. This is not exonerating israel from all responsibility, just facts:
Palestine and the surrounding Arab states don’t want a state for Jews, nor a Jewish state.
Take the time to read about the 5 times there’s been attempts to seek a two-state solution and who, even with favored conditions, rejected it all 5 times.
And then read about the final statement from the Arab states:
“Khartoum Resolution known as "The Three No's"; No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.[1] The summit also resolved that the "oil-rich Arab states" give financial aid to the states who lost the war and to "help them rebuild their military forces."[2] The final communique of the meeting "underscored the Palestinians' right to regain the whole of Palestine—that is, to destroy the State of Israel."[3] The outcome of this summit influenced Israeli foreign policy for decades.[4]”
So No three times to any notion of peace or resolution. The Arab states don’t want Jews. Period. It’s hard to deny after 10/7/23.
You present an extremely biased picture of history that was never religious in nature but based on taking land from people who had lived for hundreds of years in that area. It was violent from the beginning against the people living there. Palestinians have been gradually pushed into the world's most overcrowded gulag, controlled by Israeli forces down to what they can eat, do, where they can move. They are completely imprisoned with very little by way of arms compared to nuclear Israel. I stand and watch in horrpr one of the world's great bullies raining down viciously on a trapped people. I say no to that. The world leaders should be standing up and demanding talks and a solution, not the genocide clearly taking place as we speak. I weep for the nightmare Israel's leaders have turned their state into. After what Jews suffered in Hitler's Germany I never thought I would see another brutal homicidal maniac in charge of what is designated the Jewish state. No matter what any of us thinks or understands about the past it is a human duty to not allow people to be slaughtered helplessly in front of our eyes. Our Western leaders are failing humanity.
Yours is ann extremely biased and factually flawed view. But you’re now willfully ignorant because you read the Khartoum declaration and because it doesn’t fit your worldview you won’t believe what is written down in history by the Arab nations themselves. You’ll deny facts and history so you can be right.
And you’ll continue to support a misogynistic, homophobic people who want to exterminate Jews.
I lived and worked in the Middle East for 10 years. I know how Arabs feel about Jews because I’ve heard and seen it with my own eyes and so have my children. Arab children are taught to hate Jews from the cradle. “”Jew” is the worst name an Arab can be called. My daughter came home and told me about the boys in her school writing in the backs of their copybooks “Jews are pigs” and “Kill Jews. “
Are the Israelis without fault, no. But there is no moral equivalence. None.
If your mind cannot be turned by what you saw Hamas do there is no hope for you. If you want to go and protest Israel’s right to defend itself, at least do it with your eyes wide open. Not half shut as they are now, so you perpetuate distortions and lies.
And ask yourself this, why doesn’t the rest of the Middle East want the Palestinians? They’re all Arabs. Maybe it’s because they are just collateral, they’d rather see them die so they can blame the Jews. Just as you will blame the Jews for defending themselves.
no one wants to exterminate jews. not sure why ppl continue to buy such garbage. from 2008 to 2020, israel killed 6000 palestinians . 250 israelis were killed during this time. when israel was formed there was also supposed to be a palestinians state. its whites from US and europe who are now exterminating the arab natives who have lived in this area for 1000s of years. one thing is certain among all the confusion: jews are in no danger of anything other than occasional criminal activity, crimes that arent that much greater than any other nation faces
This doesn’t even really deserve a response. Because your opening statement, “no one wants to exterminate jews (sic)” shows you don’t pay any attention to history at all because you’ve clearly never heard of Hitler and the Nazis.
Your ignorance of the region is showing. Palestine was a land of Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Christians. Jews did not take land from Arabs; they made land purchases. About one million Jews used to live in the surrounding Arab nations, but the Arabs ethnically cleansed their lands of Jews. Meanwhile, Arabs still live inside Israel, even participating in government. Hamas doesn't just want Israeli Jews dead; they want every Jew in the world dead. That is why they are kept behind a security wall. While Israel took in the Jews escaping persecution from Arab nations, the other Arab nations won't take Arab refugees. Israel cannot take in refugees that want to kill them, so an Arab refugee can be born and die in another Arab nation without ever being given citizen status, and that it why they are still refugees to this day.
I disagree with your version of events. There are many aspects to this tale. Nevertheless I believe that in the present moment all attention needs to go to finding a peaceful solution. Trading past hurts and wrongs committed from both sides never moved the situation to a different place.
israel has been keeping millions of native arabs in a harsh illegal prison for the past 55 years. this is an apartheid situation at best and a mass unjustified slaughter at worst. the situation certainly has nothing to do with the red herrring BS you claimed.
The 'final step' in the genocide of the Palestinean people? The population of Gaza has exploded in the past two decades. The genocide doesn't seem to be working too well.
What do you mean 'we don't need to know how to fix it'? What is the point of your rally? If you're not campaigning for anything then why are you out campaigning?
And what is this nonsense about 'genocide'? Do you think that Israel does not have any right to self-defence?
Then I guess that would have been the case at the Concert For Peace at the Gaza border the morning of Oct. 7th, where over 260 unarmed people were hunted down and killed by Hamas, about the same number as the Indigenous people the U. S. army massacred at Wounded Knee, South Dakota, in 1890. Will you admit Hamas' action as mass murder?
However, Israel has all the power, and to use that to now crush trapped people is no solution. Israel has been committing atrocities on the Palestinians since the country began and the Palestinians have lost everything. If their final solution is to wipe the Palestinian people out and take the remaining bit of land on which they have been imprisoned and deprived of all quality of life, the crime is on the scale of Hitler's.
So you think the Jews are the Nazis, basically, e. g. "the crime is on the scale of Hitler's." and "Israel has been committing atrocities on the Palestinians since the country began." Therefore, if you believe they are committing crimes on the scale of Hitler's, e.g. putting six million people into extermination camps and gassing or shooting them in an organized fashion, then anything is permitted to wipe them out, and justifies Hamas' invasion and all its atrocities. "Hamas has also committed an atrocity." I mean, what atrocity do you think that is, exactly.... because according to your logic, it is justified. Therefore, it is not an atrocity, but the end result of Israel's policies, and it is in fact Israel who committed the atrocity against itself. Hamas has no agency, it's all Israel's fault.
It seems this historical analysis is acheiving nothing. People need to stop fighting and sit down and talk. There are two ways to end a war, either continue to attack until you wipe people out and crush the souls of the ones who survive, or negotiate an agreement. Unfortunately, Netanyahu has consistently shown himself to be on the side of brutes. I only pray that some humanity will be cast on the plight of helpless people, and instead of feeding war pigs humanity collectively finds a way to choose a path to peace.
If a rocket comes from a Palestinian kitchen, Israel has every right to take out that kitchen. The only other option is to allow more rockets to come from this kitchen. Hamas is a terrorist organization that plays dirty. A response is going to be dirty. Palestinian citizens need to keep Hamas from using their kitchens to fire rockets.
If you genuinely want to understand (you don't have to agree) you need to understand the point about Gaza being a gulag or a prison. It's not a country. It's an overcrowded strip of land which is extremely difficult to exit. Half the people there are kids. Most of the people there are internationally recognised as refugees from what was Palestine and is now Israel.
As i say, you don't have to agree, but for the sake of argument take the above as the starting point. Hamas fighters broke out of that prison, and they killed hundreds of their captors (Israeli soldiers) *and* they killed and kidnapped many civilians.
*It is wrong to kill and kidnap civillians.* It should be condemned. It's criminal. But it was a prison break, not an invasion. Gaza is not a foreign country.
And that's not to mention the last 75 years of history in which Israel has had the upper hand and has killed huge numbers of Palestinian civilians.
People born in a prison who escape the prison to fight their captors might not be very nice. They might in fact be extremely brutal, even evil.
Now look at what Israel is doing to children and civilians. What it's been doing to them for decades.
Generally, in a prison break, the convicts are not armed with hundreds of rockets, RPG's, machine guns and hand grenades. This was a very organized invasion by an army trained by the once elected government of Gaza, Hamas. You also omit the fact the Gaza border with Egypt has also been closed. Why might that be? The last positive news out of the area, on the Sept 29th before the invasion, was this: "About 18,000 Gazans have permits from Israeli authorities to work outside the blockaded enclave, providing an injection of cash amounting to some $2m a day to the impoverished territory’s economy." Things were opening up, because Israel had not been facing any rocket attacks from the area for a long time.
"open air prison" are words of propaganda. Gaza sits on some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. Billions in aid have poured into Gaza to revitalize this region, but like BLM, Hamas has used the aid to enrich themselves (look up Hamas billionaires), while encouraging the citizens that elected them to power to be lifelong victims.
Not even the Arab states support Hamas, which is why they won't grant Palestinians refugees citizen status. For years Hamas has had their headquarters in the basement of a hospital. For years Israel has had their hands tied. After 1400 Israelis were brutally murdered Israel said, "Enough." If the citizens of Gaza won't get rid of Hamas, we'll need to do it. Fire a rocket from your kitchen, and your home will be destroyed.
How many Palestinians has Israel murdered over the years? Or even just this week? Is murder only wring when Hamas does it? Or is murder simply wrong?
Israel is openly breaking international law in slaughtering and starving Palestinians in far greated numbers than 1400 (a number which includes hundreds of Israeli soldiers by the way).
Maybe ask why none of the other Arab nations support Hamas, why none of them will take in the Palestinian refugees. I still recommend reading up on it.
its a prison. a prison that is just a way point used by white men colonist captors from US and europe to illegally ethnic cleanse the native ppl palestine from land they have been the majority inhabitants for the past 1000s of years.
Your ignorance of the region is showing. Palestine used to be home to Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs, and Palestinian Christians. 1 million Jews used to live in the surrounding Arab nations, but these Arab nations ethically cleansed their lands of Jews and Israel took them in and gave them citizenship. Meanwhile, Arabs live in Israel, and participate in the Israeli government.
so what? that doesnt change the fact that israel has been keeping millions of native arabs in a illegal harsh prison for the past 55 years. the west bank is a prison. gaza is a prison.
israel are white colonists from US and europe and they seek to ethnically cleanse the native ppl from thier homes. arabs have been the majority group in the palestine area for the past 1000s of years. jews have been a tiny % in this area all this time. the last time jews had any significant % in this area had been 5 th century. that is until Truman foolishly let a few jews pitch a tent there. if he had known israel would become an fascist apartheid state, he certainly wouldnt have.
Who would put down their arms tomorrow for peace? Who would take advantage of this and commit genocide? Hamas, tells us that they want every last Jew on the planet killed. Not just every Israeli Jew, every Jew on the planet. And then when they’re done with this, their next goal is to convert the entire globe to Islam. That is their stated caliphate. Believe their own words. To ignore this, to deny this is to have blinders on because it’s hard to imagine human beings so inhumane. This week Hamas showed how inhumane they are. Believe them. Believe their own words.
They have been living concentrated in the world's most densely populated slum with their every move monitored and controlled by Israel, virtually unable to work, harassed consistently by new settlers and with an extraordinary high suicide rate. Their life in Gaza is a living hell. Hamas attack (which clearly the Israeli's allowed - how else to explain the massive security breaches, land, sea and air? Plus the 6 hours no reaction time?) is the response of a severely tortured people. Israel is responsible for their torture. Now they are about to bomb what little the Palestinians still had, and have ordered them to leave, which they cannot. Genocide and a land grab. Pure greed and hatred in action. No statesmanship, no good leaders, no human beings standing up to find real solutions. It is the grimmest time I have ever witnessed.
You make no account for what the Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians for decades, stealing their land and murdering them at their will. They have the upper hand in terms of power. It would be hard not to hate such oppressors when the oppression is so total. It is time to end this greed and brutality and begin to negotiate a better future for all, one that shows compassion and consideration.
It would be delightful if a "Coalition of the Willing" went ahead and disarmed all the "militias" aka terrorist groups in Gaza, so that Israel did not have to do that. Israelis could resume their daily lives and the reservists who have been called up could go back to their normal activities at home with their families, instead of the prospect they are now facing of weeks or months spent combing through all of Gazas buildings and the extensive underground tunnel system Hamas uses, with residential and commercial buildings above filled with adults and children functioning as human shields. My point is that right now disarming Hamas and the other Gazan terrorist groups IS Israel's goal and hundreds to thousands of Israeli soldiers will lose their lives or limbs working to do just that. Why wouldn't Israel welcome a Coalition of the Willing, so that it was the soldiers of other nations put in peril rather than Israelis? Problem is that no nations are going to step forward to be part of such a Coalition of the Willing, and even if they did, why should the Israelis expect any more from them than was forthcoming from the much more modest UN monitors? Israel cannot trust anyone but itself to disarm Hamas and the other groups.
there are so many parallels between the pro israel crowd and the ppl who are promoting gender ideology. both are efforts by white men to rob the rights of historically marginalized groups. both are part of a decades long well financed PR and lobby campaign that uses circular logic to create its own false propaganda.
pro israel ppl want to rob the land rights from the native arabs that have been the majority population in palestine for 1000s of years. israel has no land rights to the west bank and gaza. so it keeps millions of natives in a forever harsh prison creating the conditions where ppl object and then isreal uses that objection as grounds to rob the natives of their land which is what israel wanted and planned for all along. who is robbing the rights of millions of native arabs? israeli citizens (white ppl from US and europe) with the assistance of US , france and UK at different times in past 75 years. yes, israel is performing colonisation and ethnic cleansing. yes, israel has enforced a harsh military apartheid of millions of innocent native people for 55 years. yes, this is white people colonizing native people. no, this isnt hyperbole or an exaggeration. like gender ideology, one simply dosent belive whats happening at first. but once people do discover the truth the normal reaction is - oh fuck.
gender ideology uses a similar circular logic to rob the rights of women, kids, gays and dysphoric ppl. the gender biz is similarly a well financed PR and lobby campaign that similarly spreads misinformation. who benefits? white men. who are disadvantaged? marginalized groups . women who are robbed of spaces safe from men. kids and gays who are robbed of their right to unmedicated puberty and evidenced based health care. like the pro israel croud gender ideology relys on circular arguments of activists to make their claims. gender activists rely on online polls created by activists groups to make loftly claims about a magical group of people. and gender activists use misrepresented studys to make claims about quack health care. UK medical group BMJ feb 2023 report explains how we got to a point where some think gender meds help. its not based on evidence. its based on the self report from quack drs that are not using evidenced based reporting.
the pro israel crowd is just like the gender biz croud. they yammer on endlessly with their self reported lies, the truth about whats happening seldom stands a chance.
If I had been there I would have said that the solution is for internslational leaders to intervene by:
1) Explicitly recognising the full and equal humanity of Jews, Arabs and Muslims: making it clear that their lives have equal value.
2) Withdrawing all support, whether verbal or military or financial, for any war crimes committed by anyone. Ever.
2 is a big one for the West. Our leaders are not struggling to condemn Hamas war crimes, but they are slow to condemn Israel's obvious war crimes and quick to provide arms to Israel. It's unacceptable because war crimes are crimes and their victims are human.
3) Negotiating a peaceful resolution to the mess. This will be extremely difficult and messy but the alternative is unthinkable. Hamas will need to be persuaded to release its hostages alive wherever possible, and to achieve this Israel will have to stop bombing and will have to agree to a new status quo for Israel Palestine. What choice do they have? We cannot allow them to commit genocide.
Impossible to say exactly what a resolution would look like but it's invinceivable that it could include millions of Palestinians being fenced into the Gaza strip.
Will Israel/Palestine be a safe place to live in the end? No.
“While I felt physically safe at the event, I frequently heard the chant, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”.
Two phrase come to mind:
1. Useful idiots
2. The banality of evil
To be fair you hear just as bad stuff on the other side if you care to listen. And 'from the river to the sea' has been taken up by socialists many of whom are Jews. And 'into the sea with you' maybe a variation frequently seen on social media and always (or almost always) with implied genocide. Humans seem quite capable of imagining genocide so from there to actual genocide is maybe not too much of a step for many.
2. is too complex, but on 1.? UI's? You certainly have that right. Not only the protesters, but hamas. The question is who are they being useful to? Don't take your eye off Ukraine for a second.
Thank you for exposing these clueless people.
Like the gender issue, this is represented, on the vocal Left, by people who have little even baseline knowledge but strong emotions. They're satisfied to know that their emotions are justified by something, anything — numbers of other people, commentators they align with, friends who agree… I have an affirming spouse and in our brief (and extraordinarily unsuccessful) conversation about the conflict in the Middle East, it became clear that he did not know who Hamas was or what their role was, having assumed them to be a radicalized faction similar to the Proud Boys. I'm lost as to how to move the needle with people who are offended by the idea that they should read and listen broadly before locking into an opinion.
From the signs, I have a feeling that many never had time to look at the map to identify the Gaza Strip and other parts. Everything is "Palestine" which is a historic name for the entire region including modern Israel. "Free Palestine" (instead of "Free Gaza Strip" or "I support the State of Palestine" or something like that) sounds like "free the region from Jews". What a bunch of idiots undermining their own cause.
like the gender issue, there is a cabal of white men who have spent decades on a PR campaign to further their interests at the expense of marginalized groups. in the case of the Palestinians, white men from US and europe are robbing the rights of native ppl who have lived in the Palestinian area for 1000s of years, keeping millions of natives in an illegal harah prison called the west bank and gaza. regarding the gender issue, white men promoting gender ideology are robbing the rights of women, kids, gays. dysphoric ppl.
both the zionists and gender activists were given an inch and took a mile. both only benefit white men. both groups have spent $billons amd decades on a circular PR campaign
Maybe they should look into where that ‘Workers of the World, Unite!’ stuff got us. I see society today as I saw it in Crime and Punishment and The Gulag Archipelago.
"I did not hear anything that I considered to be particularly insightful, my takeaway was that while feelings were strong, solutions were in short supply."
In Other Words standard leftist/progressive drivel.
It's remarkable how people align themselves with reprehensible causes, blinded by their own righteousness. They want to protest capitalism, so they join a herd that seems to agree with them on one thing, totally ignoring the actual cause - in this case, to annihilate Israel. I feel like the same happened with BLM. So many people believed this was an organization supporting black communities, when actually, they were supporting a Marxist organization focused on the destruction of the nuclear family. The slogan "Black Lives Matter" confused a lot of folks. Many donated not realizing their money was going straight to Act Blue - to elect progressive (Marxists) democrats.
no one wants to annihilate israel. yes, super histrionics worked well for israel in the past. but i think most people now recognise that its isreal thats been keeping millions of native arabs in harsh illegal prison for the past 55 years so that colonists from US and europe can ethnically cleanse the native arabs from their homes so these whites frrom US and europe can rob the natives of their homes. annihilate israel? no. thats just colonizer BS.
“no one wants to annihilate israel.” Not only does Hamas want to annihilate Israel, they want to annihilate every Jew on the planet. Then they want to annihilate everyone else on the planet that won’t convert to Islam. To ignore this is to ignore their own words.
it wouldnt mater if hamas said it wants to ride bikes on the moon. the fact is that israel has been killing arabs 20x more than the vise versa and a 1000 war crimes on innocent ppl as well. isreal isnt in any danger of anything. zero. and if israel is an any danger its only due to its own one sided slaughter of innocent ppl that israel has created such global outrage. but israel doesnt own all the blame. the blame also falls with western governments that allow israels war crimes to continue
I think in the spirit of your hyperbole, that would be millions of war crimes, not 1000. And Israel of course is in no danger, it is perfectly safe and Hamas is a peaceful group that likes to shout "God is Great" in times of great happiness. 1200 Israeli's weren't just killed in a war invasion, it was all a coverup by the usual suspects. Photoshop does wonders these days.
from 2008 to 2020, israel killed 6000 palestinians. 250 israelis died during this time.
starting in 1967, israel has kept millions in an illegal harsh prison called west bank and gaza with no hope and no offer from israel other than to please die as soon as possible so that white people from US and europe can rob their land and ethnically cleanse the native people who have inhabited this area for 1000s of years.
yes. what hama did was terrible. but it didnt happen in a vacuum.
israels cynical notating of hama actions cant be taken at face value. israel wanted hama to attack. these attacks are part of israel strategy to rob land they have no right to.
yes. i agree what israel is doing sounds crazy. but its really not that difficult to understand how we got to this point. israel and pro israeli supporters have been able to lie their asses off for decades about things anyone can see with their own eyes. and they pay western pols via one of the most powerful and rich lobby groups the world as ever known.
You have been brainwashed. I don't expect you to break free of your ignorance. Ignorance is a choice. Nevertheless, here is a quick video from a Palestinian explaining the facts.
https://www.prageru.com/video/a-palestinian-explains-hamas
I’m surprised nobody was chanting “Wokers of the World, Unite!”
🤣🤡🌎
😬
It’s maddening how woefully uninformed these people seem.
The emotional young lady from the first video “millions of babies are dying!” Millions?
That’s nuts. Where does she get her information?
🤦♂️
The data shows the opposite. The Muslim birth rate inside Israel proper as well as the Gaza Strip and the area often called The West Bank have very high birth rates.
🛎️🔨
There are more Palestinians alive today than at any point in history. Some Genocide.
Of course Palestinians as a separate ethnicity didn’t exist until around 1968 or so…
I intend to attend rallies to show my support for the many Palestinian people who are trapped in a horrendous situation, outgunned and with nowhere to go. Nethanyanu has consistently shown himself to be a ruthless tyrant in regards to the Palestinian people who have been pushed into a gulag like existence. I am horrified that no global western leader is stepping up and calling for a truce and proper talks but rather aiding and abetting what looks like the final step in genociding the Palestinian people and grabbing their land.
I am sure there are many more people like me who may feel helpless but at the minimum want to have their bodies counted in saying no to this Palestinian holocaust that looks to be unfolding. We don't need to know how to fix it to get out there and say 'not in our name'!!!
You leave out a lot of facts in your rant. Here are some you missed before you go on your protest and get used as a useful tool for those who want Jews annihilated, who oppress women and kill LGBTQ++ whenever and wherever they find them. This is not exonerating israel from all responsibility, just facts:
Palestine and the surrounding Arab states don’t want a state for Jews, nor a Jewish state.
Take the time to read about the 5 times there’s been attempts to seek a two-state solution and who, even with favored conditions, rejected it all 5 times.
And then read about the final statement from the Arab states:
“Khartoum Resolution known as "The Three No's"; No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.[1] The summit also resolved that the "oil-rich Arab states" give financial aid to the states who lost the war and to "help them rebuild their military forces."[2] The final communique of the meeting "underscored the Palestinians' right to regain the whole of Palestine—that is, to destroy the State of Israel."[3] The outcome of this summit influenced Israeli foreign policy for decades.[4]”
So No three times to any notion of peace or resolution. The Arab states don’t want Jews. Period. It’s hard to deny after 10/7/23.
Excellent rebuttal JAE. Would bet Lynne has little to no idea of the history and the facts regarding this issue.
You present an extremely biased picture of history that was never religious in nature but based on taking land from people who had lived for hundreds of years in that area. It was violent from the beginning against the people living there. Palestinians have been gradually pushed into the world's most overcrowded gulag, controlled by Israeli forces down to what they can eat, do, where they can move. They are completely imprisoned with very little by way of arms compared to nuclear Israel. I stand and watch in horrpr one of the world's great bullies raining down viciously on a trapped people. I say no to that. The world leaders should be standing up and demanding talks and a solution, not the genocide clearly taking place as we speak. I weep for the nightmare Israel's leaders have turned their state into. After what Jews suffered in Hitler's Germany I never thought I would see another brutal homicidal maniac in charge of what is designated the Jewish state. No matter what any of us thinks or understands about the past it is a human duty to not allow people to be slaughtered helplessly in front of our eyes. Our Western leaders are failing humanity.
Yours is ann extremely biased and factually flawed view. But you’re now willfully ignorant because you read the Khartoum declaration and because it doesn’t fit your worldview you won’t believe what is written down in history by the Arab nations themselves. You’ll deny facts and history so you can be right.
And you’ll continue to support a misogynistic, homophobic people who want to exterminate Jews.
I lived and worked in the Middle East for 10 years. I know how Arabs feel about Jews because I’ve heard and seen it with my own eyes and so have my children. Arab children are taught to hate Jews from the cradle. “”Jew” is the worst name an Arab can be called. My daughter came home and told me about the boys in her school writing in the backs of their copybooks “Jews are pigs” and “Kill Jews. “
Are the Israelis without fault, no. But there is no moral equivalence. None.
If your mind cannot be turned by what you saw Hamas do there is no hope for you. If you want to go and protest Israel’s right to defend itself, at least do it with your eyes wide open. Not half shut as they are now, so you perpetuate distortions and lies.
And ask yourself this, why doesn’t the rest of the Middle East want the Palestinians? They’re all Arabs. Maybe it’s because they are just collateral, they’d rather see them die so they can blame the Jews. Just as you will blame the Jews for defending themselves.
This.
no one wants to exterminate jews. not sure why ppl continue to buy such garbage. from 2008 to 2020, israel killed 6000 palestinians . 250 israelis were killed during this time. when israel was formed there was also supposed to be a palestinians state. its whites from US and europe who are now exterminating the arab natives who have lived in this area for 1000s of years. one thing is certain among all the confusion: jews are in no danger of anything other than occasional criminal activity, crimes that arent that much greater than any other nation faces
This doesn’t even really deserve a response. Because your opening statement, “no one wants to exterminate jews (sic)” shows you don’t pay any attention to history at all because you’ve clearly never heard of Hitler and the Nazis.
Your ignorance of the region is showing. Palestine was a land of Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Christians. Jews did not take land from Arabs; they made land purchases. About one million Jews used to live in the surrounding Arab nations, but the Arabs ethnically cleansed their lands of Jews. Meanwhile, Arabs still live inside Israel, even participating in government. Hamas doesn't just want Israeli Jews dead; they want every Jew in the world dead. That is why they are kept behind a security wall. While Israel took in the Jews escaping persecution from Arab nations, the other Arab nations won't take Arab refugees. Israel cannot take in refugees that want to kill them, so an Arab refugee can be born and die in another Arab nation without ever being given citizen status, and that it why they are still refugees to this day.
I disagree with your version of events. There are many aspects to this tale. Nevertheless I believe that in the present moment all attention needs to go to finding a peaceful solution. Trading past hurts and wrongs committed from both sides never moved the situation to a different place.
israel has been keeping millions of native arabs in a harsh illegal prison for the past 55 years. this is an apartheid situation at best and a mass unjustified slaughter at worst. the situation certainly has nothing to do with the red herrring BS you claimed.
The 'final step' in the genocide of the Palestinean people? The population of Gaza has exploded in the past two decades. The genocide doesn't seem to be working too well.
What do you mean 'we don't need to know how to fix it'? What is the point of your rally? If you're not campaigning for anything then why are you out campaigning?
And what is this nonsense about 'genocide'? Do you think that Israel does not have any right to self-defence?
Attacking innocent civilians who have nowhere to go is not self defence. It is mass murder.
Then I guess that would have been the case at the Concert For Peace at the Gaza border the morning of Oct. 7th, where over 260 unarmed people were hunted down and killed by Hamas, about the same number as the Indigenous people the U. S. army massacred at Wounded Knee, South Dakota, in 1890. Will you admit Hamas' action as mass murder?
Absolutely, Hamas has also committed an atrocity.
However, Israel has all the power, and to use that to now crush trapped people is no solution. Israel has been committing atrocities on the Palestinians since the country began and the Palestinians have lost everything. If their final solution is to wipe the Palestinian people out and take the remaining bit of land on which they have been imprisoned and deprived of all quality of life, the crime is on the scale of Hitler's.
So you think the Jews are the Nazis, basically, e. g. "the crime is on the scale of Hitler's." and "Israel has been committing atrocities on the Palestinians since the country began." Therefore, if you believe they are committing crimes on the scale of Hitler's, e.g. putting six million people into extermination camps and gassing or shooting them in an organized fashion, then anything is permitted to wipe them out, and justifies Hamas' invasion and all its atrocities. "Hamas has also committed an atrocity." I mean, what atrocity do you think that is, exactly.... because according to your logic, it is justified. Therefore, it is not an atrocity, but the end result of Israel's policies, and it is in fact Israel who committed the atrocity against itself. Hamas has no agency, it's all Israel's fault.
It seems this historical analysis is acheiving nothing. People need to stop fighting and sit down and talk. There are two ways to end a war, either continue to attack until you wipe people out and crush the souls of the ones who survive, or negotiate an agreement. Unfortunately, Netanyahu has consistently shown himself to be on the side of brutes. I only pray that some humanity will be cast on the plight of helpless people, and instead of feeding war pigs humanity collectively finds a way to choose a path to peace.
If a rocket comes from a Palestinian kitchen, Israel has every right to take out that kitchen. The only other option is to allow more rockets to come from this kitchen. Hamas is a terrorist organization that plays dirty. A response is going to be dirty. Palestinian citizens need to keep Hamas from using their kitchens to fire rockets.
You wrote that people "were just generally outraged." By the terrorist attack of Hamas? Or by the military incursion in to Gaza?
If you genuinely want to understand (you don't have to agree) you need to understand the point about Gaza being a gulag or a prison. It's not a country. It's an overcrowded strip of land which is extremely difficult to exit. Half the people there are kids. Most of the people there are internationally recognised as refugees from what was Palestine and is now Israel.
As i say, you don't have to agree, but for the sake of argument take the above as the starting point. Hamas fighters broke out of that prison, and they killed hundreds of their captors (Israeli soldiers) *and* they killed and kidnapped many civilians.
*It is wrong to kill and kidnap civillians.* It should be condemned. It's criminal. But it was a prison break, not an invasion. Gaza is not a foreign country.
And that's not to mention the last 75 years of history in which Israel has had the upper hand and has killed huge numbers of Palestinian civilians.
People born in a prison who escape the prison to fight their captors might not be very nice. They might in fact be extremely brutal, even evil.
Now look at what Israel is doing to children and civilians. What it's been doing to them for decades.
Generally, in a prison break, the convicts are not armed with hundreds of rockets, RPG's, machine guns and hand grenades. This was a very organized invasion by an army trained by the once elected government of Gaza, Hamas. You also omit the fact the Gaza border with Egypt has also been closed. Why might that be? The last positive news out of the area, on the Sept 29th before the invasion, was this: "About 18,000 Gazans have permits from Israeli authorities to work outside the blockaded enclave, providing an injection of cash amounting to some $2m a day to the impoverished territory’s economy." Things were opening up, because Israel had not been facing any rocket attacks from the area for a long time.
I've realised I put my reply in the wrong place, apologies:
https://boghossian.substack.com/p/report-from-the-pro-palestine-protest/comment/42050556?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=axr7g
"open air prison" are words of propaganda. Gaza sits on some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. Billions in aid have poured into Gaza to revitalize this region, but like BLM, Hamas has used the aid to enrich themselves (look up Hamas billionaires), while encouraging the citizens that elected them to power to be lifelong victims.
The fact that you see beaches as proof of wealth or lack of danger is astounding.
Good job nohody here supports Hamas. Nor BLM I suspect.
The 500 people Israel just blew up in a hospital were not Hamas billionaires.
This is the best summation I can recommend of the region: https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/do-arab-states-support-palestine?r=7yu9u&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Not even the Arab states support Hamas, which is why they won't grant Palestinians refugees citizen status. For years Hamas has had their headquarters in the basement of a hospital. For years Israel has had their hands tied. After 1400 Israelis were brutally murdered Israel said, "Enough." If the citizens of Gaza won't get rid of Hamas, we'll need to do it. Fire a rocket from your kitchen, and your home will be destroyed.
How many Palestinians has Israel murdered over the years? Or even just this week? Is murder only wring when Hamas does it? Or is murder simply wrong?
Israel is openly breaking international law in slaughtering and starving Palestinians in far greated numbers than 1400 (a number which includes hundreds of Israeli soldiers by the way).
Maybe ask why none of the other Arab nations support Hamas, why none of them will take in the Palestinian refugees. I still recommend reading up on it.
its a prison. a prison that is just a way point used by white men colonist captors from US and europe to illegally ethnic cleanse the native ppl palestine from land they have been the majority inhabitants for the past 1000s of years.
Your ignorance of the region is showing. Palestine used to be home to Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs, and Palestinian Christians. 1 million Jews used to live in the surrounding Arab nations, but these Arab nations ethically cleansed their lands of Jews and Israel took them in and gave them citizenship. Meanwhile, Arabs live in Israel, and participate in the Israeli government.
so what? that doesnt change the fact that israel has been keeping millions of native arabs in a illegal harsh prison for the past 55 years. the west bank is a prison. gaza is a prison.
israel are white colonists from US and europe and they seek to ethnically cleanse the native ppl from thier homes. arabs have been the majority group in the palestine area for the past 1000s of years. jews have been a tiny % in this area all this time. the last time jews had any significant % in this area had been 5 th century. that is until Truman foolishly let a few jews pitch a tent there. if he had known israel would become an fascist apartheid state, he certainly wouldnt have.
Who would put down their arms tomorrow for peace? Who would take advantage of this and commit genocide? Hamas, tells us that they want every last Jew on the planet killed. Not just every Israeli Jew, every Jew on the planet. And then when they’re done with this, their next goal is to convert the entire globe to Islam. That is their stated caliphate. Believe their own words. To ignore this, to deny this is to have blinders on because it’s hard to imagine human beings so inhumane. This week Hamas showed how inhumane they are. Believe them. Believe their own words.
They have been living concentrated in the world's most densely populated slum with their every move monitored and controlled by Israel, virtually unable to work, harassed consistently by new settlers and with an extraordinary high suicide rate. Their life in Gaza is a living hell. Hamas attack (which clearly the Israeli's allowed - how else to explain the massive security breaches, land, sea and air? Plus the 6 hours no reaction time?) is the response of a severely tortured people. Israel is responsible for their torture. Now they are about to bomb what little the Palestinians still had, and have ordered them to leave, which they cannot. Genocide and a land grab. Pure greed and hatred in action. No statesmanship, no good leaders, no human beings standing up to find real solutions. It is the grimmest time I have ever witnessed.
You make no account for what the Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians for decades, stealing their land and murdering them at their will. They have the upper hand in terms of power. It would be hard not to hate such oppressors when the oppression is so total. It is time to end this greed and brutality and begin to negotiate a better future for all, one that shows compassion and consideration.
The only solution is to impose, forcefully if needed, international law and the UN mandate.
Both sides need to be pacified, and if they continue to be violent, disarmed by a Coalition of the Willing.
See?
Solutions.
Also, capitalism has nearly nothing to do with this. This is an ethnic conflict.
It would be delightful if a "Coalition of the Willing" went ahead and disarmed all the "militias" aka terrorist groups in Gaza, so that Israel did not have to do that. Israelis could resume their daily lives and the reservists who have been called up could go back to their normal activities at home with their families, instead of the prospect they are now facing of weeks or months spent combing through all of Gazas buildings and the extensive underground tunnel system Hamas uses, with residential and commercial buildings above filled with adults and children functioning as human shields. My point is that right now disarming Hamas and the other Gazan terrorist groups IS Israel's goal and hundreds to thousands of Israeli soldiers will lose their lives or limbs working to do just that. Why wouldn't Israel welcome a Coalition of the Willing, so that it was the soldiers of other nations put in peril rather than Israelis? Problem is that no nations are going to step forward to be part of such a Coalition of the Willing, and even if they did, why should the Israelis expect any more from them than was forthcoming from the much more modest UN monitors? Israel cannot trust anyone but itself to disarm Hamas and the other groups.
TL;DR Israel must be allowed to do its thing, Israel dindu nuffin, Israel gud boi wanted to go to university
there are so many parallels between the pro israel crowd and the ppl who are promoting gender ideology. both are efforts by white men to rob the rights of historically marginalized groups. both are part of a decades long well financed PR and lobby campaign that uses circular logic to create its own false propaganda.
pro israel ppl want to rob the land rights from the native arabs that have been the majority population in palestine for 1000s of years. israel has no land rights to the west bank and gaza. so it keeps millions of natives in a forever harsh prison creating the conditions where ppl object and then isreal uses that objection as grounds to rob the natives of their land which is what israel wanted and planned for all along. who is robbing the rights of millions of native arabs? israeli citizens (white ppl from US and europe) with the assistance of US , france and UK at different times in past 75 years. yes, israel is performing colonisation and ethnic cleansing. yes, israel has enforced a harsh military apartheid of millions of innocent native people for 55 years. yes, this is white people colonizing native people. no, this isnt hyperbole or an exaggeration. like gender ideology, one simply dosent belive whats happening at first. but once people do discover the truth the normal reaction is - oh fuck.
gender ideology uses a similar circular logic to rob the rights of women, kids, gays and dysphoric ppl. the gender biz is similarly a well financed PR and lobby campaign that similarly spreads misinformation. who benefits? white men. who are disadvantaged? marginalized groups . women who are robbed of spaces safe from men. kids and gays who are robbed of their right to unmedicated puberty and evidenced based health care. like the pro israel croud gender ideology relys on circular arguments of activists to make their claims. gender activists rely on online polls created by activists groups to make loftly claims about a magical group of people. and gender activists use misrepresented studys to make claims about quack health care. UK medical group BMJ feb 2023 report explains how we got to a point where some think gender meds help. its not based on evidence. its based on the self report from quack drs that are not using evidenced based reporting.
the pro israel crowd is just like the gender biz croud. they yammer on endlessly with their self reported lies, the truth about whats happening seldom stands a chance.
If I had been there I would have said that the solution is for internslational leaders to intervene by:
1) Explicitly recognising the full and equal humanity of Jews, Arabs and Muslims: making it clear that their lives have equal value.
2) Withdrawing all support, whether verbal or military or financial, for any war crimes committed by anyone. Ever.
2 is a big one for the West. Our leaders are not struggling to condemn Hamas war crimes, but they are slow to condemn Israel's obvious war crimes and quick to provide arms to Israel. It's unacceptable because war crimes are crimes and their victims are human.
3) Negotiating a peaceful resolution to the mess. This will be extremely difficult and messy but the alternative is unthinkable. Hamas will need to be persuaded to release its hostages alive wherever possible, and to achieve this Israel will have to stop bombing and will have to agree to a new status quo for Israel Palestine. What choice do they have? We cannot allow them to commit genocide.
Impossible to say exactly what a resolution would look like but it's invinceivable that it could include millions of Palestinians being fenced into the Gaza strip.
Will Israel/Palestine be a safe place to live in the end? No.
Was it before? No.