I really enjoyed this conversation - it’s one I had been hoping you would have. If you are going to address this topic again, consider the point that changed that one participant’s mind: does surrogacy harm the child? I am also curious as to what would make Peter change his position. What kind of trauma would the child or the surrogate have to experience for him to conclude that surrogacy is unethical?
Some other claims for your next conversation could be:
*It is better to adopt than use surrogacy
*Surrogacy devalues women
*Surrogacy empowers the LGBTQ . . . . community
*The inside of a woman’s body is just another workplace
*Children born through surrogacy have a right to know their egg donor and surrogate mother
*Everyone has a right to a biological child of their own
Thanks for the great content and outstanding moderation!
The research out of BioEthics and Culture Network tells us that women who have donated eggs are now experiencing earlier than normal menopause. Because bones weaken after menopause in many women, this is not to be recommended. Further, there have been pregnancy deaths of surrogate mothers, who had already started a family, thus these children are now motherless. Adults make choices on lifestyle, career and goals. They should not be renting an unrelated woman's womb.
I find this implausible and note that women have been cautioned regarding estrogen doses for menopausal difficulties. I had a uterine fibroid removed and a bone tumor removed from the top of my skull. Bone tumors are not primarily water. Estrogen and testosterone are known carcinogens and you're starting to sound like a troll.
As an inpatient pediatrician, I frequently see actual Child torture. It is soul crushing to try to go and find the rape kit result on infants. I had to do that two days ago. It is soul crushing to find babies with missing and mangled body parts or have been waterboarded. We have to photograph it all and document it all verbally.
I am difficult to offend and have a very thick skin. I must say that I am offended by the suggestion that the happy occasion of giving birth to a baby then hand him to his lawful parents is the same as Child torture. Tell me you have never seen child torture without telling me.
No one is entitled to be born under the most ideal of conditions, to a mother and a father, who are married and love each other. I frequently deal with families that fall short of the ideal family. Children from those families are still precious. To say that a child’s mother must give birth to him devalues the experience of these other families. There are so many mothers and fathers in the world who did not give birth and are not biologically related to the child but nonetheless, they are mothers and fathers.
The really nasty ones are still relatively rare. What I see almost every day is neonatal drug withdrawal. That’s the routine “mild and bland” flavor of in-utero child abuse. Damaged the brain for life. Babies suffer as soon as they are born, so jittery and difficult to console.
"This is the main job of a good SSE moderator, to look for the most contentious premises within all of the arguments that are being made. There you’re most likely to find errors, and identifying and correcting errors is the whole point of the exercise, as that’s the engine of not only scientific progress but for progress in politics and morality."
You're not blindly following rules, you know where your goal is and therefore you can improvise. This is really good SSE. This is how I want to do it.
I really enjoyed this conversation - it’s one I had been hoping you would have. If you are going to address this topic again, consider the point that changed that one participant’s mind: does surrogacy harm the child? I am also curious as to what would make Peter change his position. What kind of trauma would the child or the surrogate have to experience for him to conclude that surrogacy is unethical?
Some other claims for your next conversation could be:
*It is better to adopt than use surrogacy
*Surrogacy devalues women
*Surrogacy empowers the LGBTQ . . . . community
*The inside of a woman’s body is just another workplace
*Children born through surrogacy have a right to know their egg donor and surrogate mother
*Everyone has a right to a biological child of their own
Thanks for the great content and outstanding moderation!
-Noelle
We’re happy to do so. And yes, we will likely do it again.
Excellent work moderating, Reid. And thanks for explaining your process. That should help me have better conversations about contentious topics.
The research out of BioEthics and Culture Network tells us that women who have donated eggs are now experiencing earlier than normal menopause. Because bones weaken after menopause in many women, this is not to be recommended. Further, there have been pregnancy deaths of surrogate mothers, who had already started a family, thus these children are now motherless. Adults make choices on lifestyle, career and goals. They should not be renting an unrelated woman's womb.
Thanks, Ute. Do you happen to have a citation for this?
You can find all the information at this website: cbc-network.org
https://cbc-network.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/3_Things_You_Should_Know_About_Egg_Donation-Center_for_Bioethics_and_Culture.pdf
HRT can ameliorate much of bone density from early menopause?
Exogenous estrogen is a carcinogen and its use must be carefully monitored.
Water is the primary component of tumors. Its excess intake can cause seizures and brain swelling.
HRT and cancer risk has been debunked.
I find this implausible and note that women have been cautioned regarding estrogen doses for menopausal difficulties. I had a uterine fibroid removed and a bone tumor removed from the top of my skull. Bone tumors are not primarily water. Estrogen and testosterone are known carcinogens and you're starting to sound like a troll.
As an inpatient pediatrician, I frequently see actual Child torture. It is soul crushing to try to go and find the rape kit result on infants. I had to do that two days ago. It is soul crushing to find babies with missing and mangled body parts or have been waterboarded. We have to photograph it all and document it all verbally.
I am difficult to offend and have a very thick skin. I must say that I am offended by the suggestion that the happy occasion of giving birth to a baby then hand him to his lawful parents is the same as Child torture. Tell me you have never seen child torture without telling me.
No one is entitled to be born under the most ideal of conditions, to a mother and a father, who are married and love each other. I frequently deal with families that fall short of the ideal family. Children from those families are still precious. To say that a child’s mother must give birth to him devalues the experience of these other families. There are so many mothers and fathers in the world who did not give birth and are not biologically related to the child but nonetheless, they are mothers and fathers.
Wow. Speechless.
The really nasty ones are still relatively rare. What I see almost every day is neonatal drug withdrawal. That’s the routine “mild and bland” flavor of in-utero child abuse. Damaged the brain for life. Babies suffer as soon as they are born, so jittery and difficult to console.
"This is the main job of a good SSE moderator, to look for the most contentious premises within all of the arguments that are being made. There you’re most likely to find errors, and identifying and correcting errors is the whole point of the exercise, as that’s the engine of not only scientific progress but for progress in politics and morality."
You're not blindly following rules, you know where your goal is and therefore you can improvise. This is really good SSE. This is how I want to do it.
Reid did a fantastic job. Truly.
He has a great teacher!