I was going to quit on this thread. I've said plenty. But since you brought it up, Elle, here's a terrific video EVERYONE should watch. This guy is telling the truth like no one else I've seen online.
As I'm sure you know, doing Street Epistemology is not like doing Street History (I know there's no such a thing). The role of the facilitator is NOT to correct historical perceptions but rather to help one align one's views with the evidence.
I don't do social media because it's a great way to be surveilled and manipulated by the government or other dishonest actors and you can't really trust anything on it anyway. I especially do not trust Telegram which sounds to me like an echo chamber in which to generate hatred and paranoia. I have not heard of Hamas "gleefully" broadcasting rape and murder. I have heard of a young illegal Jewish settler (on Palestinian land, FYI) stating that Hamas decapitated babies' and raped Jewish women which has been very completely discounted as bullshit by man, including the White House. Not only are many unaware of things that happened before they were born (though they know well enough about things that happened before they were born in other countries, interestingly enough so where's the excuse for their current ignorance) and there are many that don't know what is happening right now thanks to a mainstream media that has been completely captured by the pro-Israeli lobby for longer than I have been alive, which is almost 7 decades. I am assuming the people who follow Telegram can read. But maybe they are not so good at thinking logically and independently? Clearly there are many Westerners who have no idea how to identify propaganda or that it even exists. Ignorance is no excuse, Elle. If you support genocide, you support genocide. Stop talking about "bad Germans". They are you if you support this genocidal attack on Palestinians. That's the hard fact that everyone in the West must deal with right now. There have been many statements from Israelis, especially Israeli elected and appointed leaders, who show decided lack of empathy for innocent civilians caught up in this on the Palestinian side. In fact, they very proudly state they are "animals" and they want to wipe them off the map. That doesn't sound like "feeling" for innocent civilians--unless you don't mean feeling empathy but just having emotions towards them--in this case, irrational and ignorant hatred. Probably from guilt. They want to kill ALL of them. They want the off-shore oil fields that belong to Palestinians and they are concerned about the difference in the two groups' birth rates. Israelis need immigrants badly just to keep their numbers where they are today. They're at 1.8% birthrate which is not sustainable and Gazans are 4.4%. The number I've seen for Palestinians in general is 2.2%. Every day the disparity between the groups gets larger, to Israel's detriment. They know what to do about it but there's something sick in that society. Rather than have children themselves, they'd rather kill Palestinian kids. They have known this (and been talking about it) for more than 20 years.
This is long-term--not this current situation. This is what Israelis have been doing to Palestinians all along. Do some friggin' research. Enough. Your attempt to neutralize the truth is a failure. Because it cannot be neutralized. These are the facts.
You obviously rely on mainstream news which hasn't been reliable for quite a few years now. I am not doing your homework for you, Steve. If you want to find out what's really going on, you have access to the same sources as I have. There are lots of sources for this information. It's been going on for a long time. If you want to see Israel as the perennial victim, that's all you will see. They are not. They have killed a lot of children with snipers. It's something of their specialty. I follow a number of sites: Some American like If Americans Knew and Mondoweiss, some Palestinian like the Palestinian Chronicle; I have been reading a couple articles a week of children being shot in the head while playing. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink. You obviously have access to the Internet. Use it. The underlying issue is demography. Israelis are not replicating themselves. Palestinians are increasing their numbers. The new government has told their citizens that as regards Palestinians they can do anything they want; there will be no consequences. It's hunting season.
Sorry, Steve. But my family has been here longer than yours. Or else we are cousins. But you're welcome to stay.
As for the inhumanity of the state of Israel: How about shooting little kids (pre-pubescent) IN THE HEAD as they play in the street so that they can't live long enough to conceive the next generation? And when news of that oh-so-humane behavior resulted in shock, how about shooting kids in the leg with bullets that shatter the entire leg so that it has to be amputated to make it harder for them to be productive members of the society? How about shutting off water for two weeks, and then allowing water to run in the pipes to Palestinians for 3-4 hours, followed by another two weeks without water (which, NOT coincidentially, flows from the National River in the Golan Heights, which does NOT belong to Israel)? And did I mention how much water the Israelis wasted on their lawns? That's pretty damned inhumane. How about bombing hospitals and schools, including UN institutions, in order to kill maximum numbers of civilians as they did in previous intifadas? How about using phosphorus bombs on civilians? If you want to go back to 1948, how about tying up people who refused to leave their land and putting tires around their necks, then dousing them with gasoline and lighting them? How about putting typhus in their water wells? Too many incidents of inhumanity to go into. And when they are mentioned the Israelis come back with "the Holocaust". Speaking of that, how about refusing to allow Holocaust survivors to emigrate to the U.S. because the Zionists in Palestine wanted more land and DEMANDED they be brought to Palestine. And then, before they had even acclimated to a desert climate, shoving a rifle into their hands and forcing them to "fight" their Arab "neighbors", to steal their land. A lot of them died. Survivors of the death camps died, thanks to the inhumane Zionist zealots. Of dehydration, of exhaustion? They were still stick-thin and had not had time to recuperate from months and years of near-starvation. Do you REALLY want to talk about Israelis' inhumanity? How about stealing other countries' share of COVID vaccines? Oooh. That wasn't too smart, given the excessive death rate those vaccines result in, is it? Pathetic as I think those vaccines are, that was inhumane. Definitely. Disgusting behavior. Their birth rate is only 1.8%. How the hell do you think they are going to survive? They can't. They have to have a birth rate of at least 2.0%. It doesn't matter how many Palestinians they kill. That will not change their birth rate. The descendants of some of the refugees terrorized out of Palestine in 1948 are still living in Palestinian refugee camps in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. REAL humane. 75 years in a refugee camp. You have no idea. I feel sorry for you. You really have no idea.
They removed Jewish settlers in the Gaza Strip because Sharon knew it was a losing cause. It wasn't "humane". He turned the Gaza Strip into an open-air prison, as you well know. And instituted a siege. Not humane in the least.
If you want sources, do your own homework. There are millions.
"As for the inhumanity of the state of Israel: How about shooting little kids (pre-pubescent) IN THE HEAD as they play in the street so that they can't live long enough to conceive the next generation?"
Here's a timeline of deaths. Roughly 1 Israeli for every 10 Palestinians. You have to click on the name to find out the details of how they died. Mainstream media does not usually report Palestinian deaths--and definitely does not name the dead or tell how they were killed. But we get story after story of the Israeli victims, names, age, family, hobbies, yada yada. This doesn't include anything from October 7, 2023 on. Thus far over 2000 Palestinian children have been killed since October 7; more than half of the 7000+ killed by Israeli bombs and incursions into Gaza have been women, children, and babies. Sources are both Palestinian and Israeli.
Do you think Benjamin Netanyahu just got up on the wrong side of the bed and decided it was time to kill some Palestinians? Do you think those numbers could be lai at he feet of Hamas who prevents non combatants from leaving the areas the IDF AF said they were going to bomb?
Ha. I came to the U.S. from the M.E. (neither Arab nor Muslim, in case you want to attack me for that) in 1972. You couldn't even mention Palestine at that time without some poor traumatized Jewish Baby Boomer getting in your face crying hysterically about lampshades. Now large number of American Jews and non-Jews alike can see the inhumanity that is the State of Israel. The difference is immense. What does your average American know about the (1973) Yom Kippur War? Roughly nothing. Those that know anything at all can only parrot Zionist propaganda. Now huge numbers of people know quite a lot about the situation including the fact that it began way before Hitler. I never thought I'd see such progress. I don't like cell phones but they do help show what is really going on and side-step mainstream media. Israel is self-destructing. They need to leave. The more Palestinians they kill in their carpet bombing and ground invasion, the harder it will be for them to walk back on this. They are writing their own exit. Who that is alive today will ever forget what they are doing now? Only psycho/sociopaths. I'm sick of being bullied by Zionists. They control American primaries. It's pathetic. The parasite has devoured its victim.
Cite examples (with sources) of "the inhumanity that is the State of Israel."? Is it Inhuman to have Arabs in the Knesset on the Courts? How Inhuman was it when the Israeli government sent the IDF into the Gaza Strip to favorably remove Jewish settlers?
"I came to the U.S. from the M.E. (neither Arab nor Muslim, in case you want to attack me for that) in 1972."
I'm NOT attacking you for your ethnicity (that being THE LEAST important thing). I'm pointing out your (choose 1) Bias...Ignorance.....possibly both.
BTW if we're are such a bad horrible county controlled by the Zionists...Feel free to leave. Airplanes leaving everyday.
You really should advise Hamas not to gleefully broadcast rape and murder on their Telegram. Maybe then you’d have more sympathetic ears. And FYI, haven’t met anyone who doesn’t feel for innocent civilians caught up in this on both sides except those supporting Hamas and calling for a repeat of the Holocaust. But then, most of them are unable to locate Gaza on a map and don’t know anything that occurred before they were born.
I don't think they look at it this way. They're angry, and the other Arab nations have feed that anger, Add In The Quran tells them they should rule, and clear rational thinking goes right out the door.
BTW I know some Palestinians (they run the local little store) that young Palestinian pretty much expresses their views.
As I said above I know some Palestinians, based on what they have said, Palestinians don't get along with other Arabs either.
Something I recall reading, Pre-Gulf War 1 Palestinians ran the Arab governments. By that i mean they were he teachers, doctors, bureaucrats.
You Could say, there is a lot of similarities between Jews & Palestinians. Both are involved in business, intellectuals, both Big on Families. You Could say this is something of a Family fight. And we all know how nasty they can be.
That was seriously painful to listen to. The youth are so propagandized and ignorant of history.🤦♂️
I was going to quit on this thread. I've said plenty. But since you brought it up, Elle, here's a terrific video EVERYONE should watch. This guy is telling the truth like no one else I've seen online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9SHD2Dt2gc
And while you're at it, watch Vanessa Beeley's substack.
As I'm sure you know, doing Street Epistemology is not like doing Street History (I know there's no such a thing). The role of the facilitator is NOT to correct historical perceptions but rather to help one align one's views with the evidence.
I don't do social media because it's a great way to be surveilled and manipulated by the government or other dishonest actors and you can't really trust anything on it anyway. I especially do not trust Telegram which sounds to me like an echo chamber in which to generate hatred and paranoia. I have not heard of Hamas "gleefully" broadcasting rape and murder. I have heard of a young illegal Jewish settler (on Palestinian land, FYI) stating that Hamas decapitated babies' and raped Jewish women which has been very completely discounted as bullshit by man, including the White House. Not only are many unaware of things that happened before they were born (though they know well enough about things that happened before they were born in other countries, interestingly enough so where's the excuse for their current ignorance) and there are many that don't know what is happening right now thanks to a mainstream media that has been completely captured by the pro-Israeli lobby for longer than I have been alive, which is almost 7 decades. I am assuming the people who follow Telegram can read. But maybe they are not so good at thinking logically and independently? Clearly there are many Westerners who have no idea how to identify propaganda or that it even exists. Ignorance is no excuse, Elle. If you support genocide, you support genocide. Stop talking about "bad Germans". They are you if you support this genocidal attack on Palestinians. That's the hard fact that everyone in the West must deal with right now. There have been many statements from Israelis, especially Israeli elected and appointed leaders, who show decided lack of empathy for innocent civilians caught up in this on the Palestinian side. In fact, they very proudly state they are "animals" and they want to wipe them off the map. That doesn't sound like "feeling" for innocent civilians--unless you don't mean feeling empathy but just having emotions towards them--in this case, irrational and ignorant hatred. Probably from guilt. They want to kill ALL of them. They want the off-shore oil fields that belong to Palestinians and they are concerned about the difference in the two groups' birth rates. Israelis need immigrants badly just to keep their numbers where they are today. They're at 1.8% birthrate which is not sustainable and Gazans are 4.4%. The number I've seen for Palestinians in general is 2.2%. Every day the disparity between the groups gets larger, to Israel's detriment. They know what to do about it but there's something sick in that society. Rather than have children themselves, they'd rather kill Palestinian kids. They have known this (and been talking about it) for more than 20 years.
Watch this, everyone. And try to hear this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9SHD2Dt2gc
This is long-term--not this current situation. This is what Israelis have been doing to Palestinians all along. Do some friggin' research. Enough. Your attempt to neutralize the truth is a failure. Because it cannot be neutralized. These are the facts.
You obviously rely on mainstream news which hasn't been reliable for quite a few years now. I am not doing your homework for you, Steve. If you want to find out what's really going on, you have access to the same sources as I have. There are lots of sources for this information. It's been going on for a long time. If you want to see Israel as the perennial victim, that's all you will see. They are not. They have killed a lot of children with snipers. It's something of their specialty. I follow a number of sites: Some American like If Americans Knew and Mondoweiss, some Palestinian like the Palestinian Chronicle; I have been reading a couple articles a week of children being shot in the head while playing. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink. You obviously have access to the Internet. Use it. The underlying issue is demography. Israelis are not replicating themselves. Palestinians are increasing their numbers. The new government has told their citizens that as regards Palestinians they can do anything they want; there will be no consequences. It's hunting season.
And Peter Boghossian is of Armenian extraction. He should know about genocide.
Correct.
Sorry, Steve. But my family has been here longer than yours. Or else we are cousins. But you're welcome to stay.
As for the inhumanity of the state of Israel: How about shooting little kids (pre-pubescent) IN THE HEAD as they play in the street so that they can't live long enough to conceive the next generation? And when news of that oh-so-humane behavior resulted in shock, how about shooting kids in the leg with bullets that shatter the entire leg so that it has to be amputated to make it harder for them to be productive members of the society? How about shutting off water for two weeks, and then allowing water to run in the pipes to Palestinians for 3-4 hours, followed by another two weeks without water (which, NOT coincidentially, flows from the National River in the Golan Heights, which does NOT belong to Israel)? And did I mention how much water the Israelis wasted on their lawns? That's pretty damned inhumane. How about bombing hospitals and schools, including UN institutions, in order to kill maximum numbers of civilians as they did in previous intifadas? How about using phosphorus bombs on civilians? If you want to go back to 1948, how about tying up people who refused to leave their land and putting tires around their necks, then dousing them with gasoline and lighting them? How about putting typhus in their water wells? Too many incidents of inhumanity to go into. And when they are mentioned the Israelis come back with "the Holocaust". Speaking of that, how about refusing to allow Holocaust survivors to emigrate to the U.S. because the Zionists in Palestine wanted more land and DEMANDED they be brought to Palestine. And then, before they had even acclimated to a desert climate, shoving a rifle into their hands and forcing them to "fight" their Arab "neighbors", to steal their land. A lot of them died. Survivors of the death camps died, thanks to the inhumane Zionist zealots. Of dehydration, of exhaustion? They were still stick-thin and had not had time to recuperate from months and years of near-starvation. Do you REALLY want to talk about Israelis' inhumanity? How about stealing other countries' share of COVID vaccines? Oooh. That wasn't too smart, given the excessive death rate those vaccines result in, is it? Pathetic as I think those vaccines are, that was inhumane. Definitely. Disgusting behavior. Their birth rate is only 1.8%. How the hell do you think they are going to survive? They can't. They have to have a birth rate of at least 2.0%. It doesn't matter how many Palestinians they kill. That will not change their birth rate. The descendants of some of the refugees terrorized out of Palestine in 1948 are still living in Palestinian refugee camps in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. REAL humane. 75 years in a refugee camp. You have no idea. I feel sorry for you. You really have no idea.
They removed Jewish settlers in the Gaza Strip because Sharon knew it was a losing cause. It wasn't "humane". He turned the Gaza Strip into an open-air prison, as you well know. And instituted a siege. Not humane in the least.
If you want sources, do your own homework. There are millions.
"As for the inhumanity of the state of Israel: How about shooting little kids (pre-pubescent) IN THE HEAD as they play in the street so that they can't live long enough to conceive the next generation?"
Cite Sources
Here's a timeline of deaths. Roughly 1 Israeli for every 10 Palestinians. You have to click on the name to find out the details of how they died. Mainstream media does not usually report Palestinian deaths--and definitely does not name the dead or tell how they were killed. But we get story after story of the Israeli victims, names, age, family, hobbies, yada yada. This doesn't include anything from October 7, 2023 on. Thus far over 2000 Palestinian children have been killed since October 7; more than half of the 7000+ killed by Israeli bombs and incursions into Gaza have been women, children, and babies. Sources are both Palestinian and Israeli.
https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/children/
" Roughly 1 Israeli for every 10 Palestinians."
Ever ask yourself WHY they were killed?
Do you think Benjamin Netanyahu just got up on the wrong side of the bed and decided it was time to kill some Palestinians? Do you think those numbers could be lai at he feet of Hamas who prevents non combatants from leaving the areas the IDF AF said they were going to bomb?
THINK!
Zero. It's all about greed and racism.
7 minute mark. Question: after 85 years, are you Any Close to a Palestinian state?
I'm 75, I've been watching his for the vast majority of my life. I'd have to say no closer.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over, and expecting a different result.
Ha. I came to the U.S. from the M.E. (neither Arab nor Muslim, in case you want to attack me for that) in 1972. You couldn't even mention Palestine at that time without some poor traumatized Jewish Baby Boomer getting in your face crying hysterically about lampshades. Now large number of American Jews and non-Jews alike can see the inhumanity that is the State of Israel. The difference is immense. What does your average American know about the (1973) Yom Kippur War? Roughly nothing. Those that know anything at all can only parrot Zionist propaganda. Now huge numbers of people know quite a lot about the situation including the fact that it began way before Hitler. I never thought I'd see such progress. I don't like cell phones but they do help show what is really going on and side-step mainstream media. Israel is self-destructing. They need to leave. The more Palestinians they kill in their carpet bombing and ground invasion, the harder it will be for them to walk back on this. They are writing their own exit. Who that is alive today will ever forget what they are doing now? Only psycho/sociopaths. I'm sick of being bullied by Zionists. They control American primaries. It's pathetic. The parasite has devoured its victim.
Cite examples (with sources) of "the inhumanity that is the State of Israel."? Is it Inhuman to have Arabs in the Knesset on the Courts? How Inhuman was it when the Israeli government sent the IDF into the Gaza Strip to favorably remove Jewish settlers?
"I came to the U.S. from the M.E. (neither Arab nor Muslim, in case you want to attack me for that) in 1972."
I'm NOT attacking you for your ethnicity (that being THE LEAST important thing). I'm pointing out your (choose 1) Bias...Ignorance.....possibly both.
BTW if we're are such a bad horrible county controlled by the Zionists...Feel free to leave. Airplanes leaving everyday.
She can’t argue logically with you of course.
She can’t argue logically
There...fixed it :-)
🤦♂️🤣🛎️🔨
You really should advise Hamas not to gleefully broadcast rape and murder on their Telegram. Maybe then you’d have more sympathetic ears. And FYI, haven’t met anyone who doesn’t feel for innocent civilians caught up in this on both sides except those supporting Hamas and calling for a repeat of the Holocaust. But then, most of them are unable to locate Gaza on a map and don’t know anything that occurred before they were born.
In this case, I'd say the alternative definition applies: doing the same thing over and over knowing full well it will have disastrous results.
I don't think they look at it this way. They're angry, and the other Arab nations have feed that anger, Add In The Quran tells them they should rule, and clear rational thinking goes right out the door.
BTW I know some Palestinians (they run the local little store) that young Palestinian pretty much expresses their views.
Ironically their Arab brothers in other countries use them as pawns. If they cared they’d invite them to live in their numerous Muslim countries.
As I said above I know some Palestinians, based on what they have said, Palestinians don't get along with other Arabs either.
Something I recall reading, Pre-Gulf War 1 Palestinians ran the Arab governments. By that i mean they were he teachers, doctors, bureaucrats.
You Could say, there is a lot of similarities between Jews & Palestinians. Both are involved in business, intellectuals, both Big on Families. You Could say this is something of a Family fight. And we all know how nasty they can be.
That’s enlightening and ironic, thanks.
The masses ALWAYS hate Middleman Minorities.
Something Thomas Sowell has pointed out.